EPISODE 28: Ron Smith
Among US Juniors, few adults’ names are as well-recognized as Ron Smith. But don’t let his title of “Honorary Junior” fool you; Ron began playing bridge back in the Roth Stone era, when he only would open the bidding with 14 points—3 points more than what he needs to open today. A true perennial all-star, Ron stands out for his work in fostering the rising young stars of our game. He’s also a pretty entertaining and genuinely good natured fellow.
Episode Highlights:
1:50- Ron’s mother used to think he was going to hell for playing bridge
3:40- Ron’s sister = ultimate bridge wing-woman
5:15- How Ron became hooked on bridge
12:05- Seymon Deutsch could get away with anything
16:00- The legend of Zia Mahmood
21:30- “I’ve got a partner for you” = Bobby Levin
23:00- Don’t cheat
32:20- Al Roth Stoned
36:55- A Justin Lall story
40:50- Ron + Juniors = win Midnight Zip KO
42:40- Ron is an honorary junior
44:30- How to get Bobby Levin to agree with your bidding
48:30- Bob Hamman’s unique perspective on Justin Lall
52:10- Brad Moss bamboozled Joe Grue with a legendary psyche
54:50- Ron believes in preempting aggressively when favorable
1:05:00- Edgar Kaplan and his diplomacy
1:14:40- Rubber bridge stories
1:23:40- “You’re not playing for anything either?”
1:35:28- How Joe Grue got his nickname “Joe Boo”
Transcript
John: We are rolling with Ron Smith, the great Ron Smith, the venerable Ron Smith. This is not live don't worry. We're not going to do that to you. you shaved for us. you went to best buy 15 times and here's Ronnie. Sorry. I just introduced him. Why he was taking a big sip, the champagne glass.
Ron: Hello, I'm here. Jesus. This took a while.
John: Hi God. Oh my God. You're a Saint, Joe has nothing on you. And I don't even know the Bible.
Ron: I think I studied it once at one point.
John: You did? I think I remember you telling me that you were a good Christian, a good Christian.
Ron: Yeah. I grew up in a church. I made my escape. When I learned how to play bridge,
John: were your parents active, in the church?
Ron: my mother was very active. She was definitely one of the ringleaders. And I think I remember playing when I was playing bridge about my fourth week, she had the television cameras and they were picketing outside the bridge clubs and my son was going to hell
John: You're exaggerating.
Ron: no, I'm not. I wish I was.
John: So your mom didn't approve.
Ron: He strongly disapproved. Strongly disagree up until the very end. Then she changed her mind when she saw the light at the very end,
John: What do you think changed for,
Ron: I think, uh, she got to be friends with her sister again or oldest sister, and they start traveling and I think she. So that what she believed in all her life probably wasn't true.
Yeah. So it was a big change. It was really weird. And she finally came to visit me in Chicago when I lived in the big house in the ghetto, the new house. And again, I'll do, and they were surprised as soon as she finally realized. There her son on the way the hell was I was doing okay,
John: so she came to Chicago. Did you know, she had that realization before she made plans. Like, was this the first time she came and visited you in a long time or?
Ron: this is the first time ever she came to visit me. And then she, uh, negotiated that we had the family reunion at my house, but, by the time that happened, she had passed. So we had it without her. Those were the days I escaped the ghetto. I got got into bridge sort of by mistake, but I got in
John: Well, the story that I've heard and that Michael, put in the research was that, you know, it's your sister that you had a good look and sister, and that got you access to good bridge players quickly.
Ron: Yes. My sister was very good looking and very endowed And when she would go pass, all heads would turn because she'd go very chesty pass pass, and everybody will look. And so, you know, my dance card was full with the overflow of all the players that wanted the fluid. My sister, they all happen to be males mean.
John: How did your sister get into it?
Ron: I think she got into while she was in college and she flunked out of college is I think three times or number of times. And when she came home for the last time, um, said either get a job or getting married. So she dusted off my little suit and away we went to the bridge club looking for that as well.
Okay.
John: and was that, was that the ticket or was it just your road to ruin?
Ron: I'd say both. she got the husband and I got to play bridge. It was an eye-opener. I was suddenly, I was all of a sudden out of the ghetto and sort of like a living in a normal life. It's like, it was, I mean, I knew something was wrong whenever I went home and it was just church and it was just more church and more church.
But, uh, after I learned to play bridge, I realized there was an outside world.
John: So was this, uh, was this an ABA game or a CPL game?
Ron: well, I had gotten a book by mistake and I had gone to an ABA game. My music teacher told me to. And I can sort of now imagine their surprise. I was 13 and I wasn't an adult. And I walked in on the Tuesday night and that's what I liked to play. He would probably wonder what the hell is going on here, but they, put me in the game with some lady.
Her name was beauty. Johnson turns out she had not read the same book I read. So we had a lovely, I think we had 22 and a half on a 96 average. I was not coming back, but they took my number down. And after a couple of weeks, they called me and they paired me with a, what do we call her? She was Myrtle something.
And we called her Mrs. Mert. And they paired me with her. She was like the good person in the bridge sleep there. And we had average, two weeks later, they called me again and I came and I played with their hot shot. And I came second in the jackpot. I think I won $3 worth of lunch checks, which was like dude dollars.
It was a 50 cents a day. So there I was, I had lunch Jack's now for the week. And, uh, yeah, it was hooked now. And then my sister came and she tried the ABA at first, but that there were no eligible bachelors. So then we tried the ACVL and that's when my bridge career took off.
John: Did your sister end up marrying a white guy?
Ron: Yes. A guy named Norbert Kramer. Came from a very good family, German family. Uh, from the dark side, everybody knew his family were, Jesuit priests, scientists, witnesses, uh, or played in the symphony or something. He was the only one that did, but my sister straighten him out and made him go back to college.
He got his degree and he became an accountant and that's how he supported the family. Wow. You became an accountant.
John: did your sister become a lifelong bridge player or just, it was a means to an end.
Ron: it wasn't me. I think it was more like a means to an end. She would play with her husband every now and then, or I would play with her to this day. We haven't played in a long time. I promised that I would play with her online. She kisses almost every time I play online now.
John: so you promised her this and it sounds like it, it has not had, it has not happened.
Ron: making me feel guilty. I want to see what happens next week.
John: when I talked to one of your former partners, in this podcast forum, Chris will Lankan. He said afterwards, he felt like he was on a therapist couch or something. And I wasn't sure if that was a compliment.
Ron: Oh, when he finished playing with me. Oh my God.
John: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. After I talked to Chris after we finished this like hour and a half long
Ron: Oh, there was gal Joe. Okay.
John: no, no, no. He was talking about me. Yeah. Cause I saw you, you won you and Chris won, a fast pears maybe, uh,
Ron: were second in the fast pair and we went to, what are the, uh, open pairs of the nationals? I don't think the main one secondary, you know, like during the middle of the week or something,
John: Yeah. Yeah. I think it was worth a Warner perish.
Ron: we're in a parents and we were semifinals in the, Spin gold, which is one of my, uh, best stories
were playing against meckstroth and Rodwell and the semifinals. And I think it was the last quarter and we were mounting a coup comeback and they had a million Sans. And of course we had nobody and they were all rooting for them, but we were doing well.
And so some hand I made it into finance and I'm not sure it was, it felt like the right play. And I played the guy on the right for the Jack ten fourth, as I led low to my nine to make the contract doubled. And we had already had a whole bunch of good results. Now the crowd got Zeri quiet. You could hear no ones.
Talk, and then all of a sudden you hear a whisper and it's mixed Ross. I think his second wife, she says in a whisper they're playing over their heads. Oh my God. So that was, that was the comment of the day.
John: But you didn't. So you were playing with Christopher Lincoln now in this event
Ron: and this is in, right. And it looked like we had done really well, but, as usual in those days and the nickel team to know they'll, they'd probably picked up another 10 amps,
John: Mm Hmm. Yeah.
Ron: The mix, the nickel team was hot in those days. I lost quite a few matches to them and close. I won a few. I did win the first encounter when they first showed up on the scene. I think it was in 1990 or 91 I had, uh, Simone Dortch we, uh, collaborative. I remember that was our first encounter and he was another great guy.
I seen him on Deutsche do bad. He died. He was a
John: I think it's D I think Zia, uh, wa is, uh, was a big fan of Siemens. Siemens Deutsch is a that's where I've heard of her heard of him the most. I don't know much about seeing one though.
Ron: He was a big fan of Billy Cohen and, and myself, it would be played on CMOs team a lot. then Z and them had a, a deal with him. Zia played with, Michael Rosenberg Who else he had Marcelin stands, VNC mom, but, Michael Rosenberg, now marriage, uh, Debbie Rosenberg. And she was having a baby and he wanted to stay home with her and not come to the spring nationals.
So they needed a fifth. So I was selected. So I get to play half with Simone and half with Zia. I play one quarter with Simone and two kids a year. That was the deal and JIA being as smart as he is. He'd have me play the first quarter so he could see sleeping. So you play the second quarter and then he and I would play the evening and it was great. And then we were the one seat. And I remember, we were setting, we had a million kibitzers, so I'm playing to see mom. We were the one seat and I said, wow, this is why it should be. But then some lady spoiled it.
She asked, yes. Who are you to, I guess we're not household names.
John: Did she know who your opponents were?
Ron: I think she knew who they were. What else we were, we were a mystery. So I told her that Shimon was Zia. They crowded in behind him.
John: How would you describe as the Seaman's level of play?
Ron: It wasn't horrible. It wasn't, he could, he can make his contracts, he can do a lot of stuff, but he was more of a fun guy. I remember playing him, playing him, his life, master his parents. I don't know how they overlooked him, but while we're playing the, and Paris, he talked on his phone during the bidding and the polite. And we never got penalized. Nobody ever came over to us. Nothing. And the opponents never got upset. It was amazing.
John: That's an impressive guy right there.
Ron: Oh yeah, he was, he was definitely a great guy. Bobby Wolf would say the same thing, Hammond, all these guys. They knew him back before we all did. They all had Bobby Wolf played with them a lot. And so did him. And before, Zia started playing with him, he was impressed with Zia which goes back. I mean, Zia one of his first national, when, I was on the team, I played with Billy Colin and he played with Jackie 1987 Risinger.
John: The United nations,
Ron: right.
John: the United nations team.
Ron: Right. Four different nationalities. And I know this sound racist, but when I did arrive at the tournament in Anaheim and I saw our teammates, I did turn to my partner and how come we don't know white guys, but
John: you didn't know, Zia at that
Ron: I didn't know. I didn't know, Jackie. These are our teammates. I think I might've met via or seen him across the room, but I didn't know him.
John: So it was just a, it was a, it was a nonce. It was a fin Kolesnik would call this an amateur team.
Ron: Yes, we were amateur soon. I was, uh, I had not been playing bridge a lot and, I was a trader on the trading floor and I had made some money doing the crash And so now I decided to go to a national because Billy coin. Who, also, dealt in sports, Betty don't want to get out of
John: I knew what you meant. I knew what you meant.
Ron: It was in his hometown. Yeah. So he could play the fall national. He could never play the fall national because it would be the busiest part of his think and
John: Oh, Oh, I didn't know about that part
Ron: And so.
John: he likes to bet on sports, but I didn't know that he was, did he ever have to eat the pad? Like a middleman tells me that. You had to write all your bets down on a pad. And in case of a little pad in case the, feds came so you could eat it.
Ron: I don't think he ever had that problem. kept a low profile and the. Oh, yeah. Cause I remember one time we CA we collected the money and I had like $200,000 on my
John: Oh my God.
Ron: had a lot more and we had on our old clothes, went to the chili parlor and had $2 chili and then drop the money off. But, yeah, he was quite the guy. and I remember doing this rising that we won by a record score. We did have to tend to business. And we were very sleepy on the finals of the rising air. And I will have to say that this was like the luckiest thing happens. I don't remember one hand. I was so sleepy, but I think the opponents gave us the top on 80 or 90 bucks.
If it had been a 25 top, we didn't had 20, 25 tops, but it was bordered match. So we just had a win, win, win. When every time, no matter what their score was, we won the board. At one point, we were leading by 10 boards to the final session.
John: So at what point in this proceedings did Zia impress you?
Ron: Well, once again, I was unconscious, we are played the Vanderbilt and we kept winning. And I know since I did make a mistake and stay up all night, it had to be him. But my partners kept saying that we were playing great, but I hadn't. We got to the finals of that too.
John: so in this winning the rising or, you know, which is a major event, you know, that's one of the crown jewels of the bridge calendar. you never like, man, this guy can really play or Hemmer jaggy, or either of them.
Ron: we never went over to the scores. We never heard it. We, we compare it. And then Billy said he had to go, tend to business. And I was staying at his place. So, I mean, what can I do? We never went out for drinks or anything.
John: Oh, my gosh.
Ron: really didn't get to know Zia that well until we went to Iceland. And then, then I got to see him in action.
I can see that he was like, really, uh, and at that point we realized that he was the guy to, we should promote, he was a showman. He was a guy, he was here. It was like, we would step out of the way when we played in the Vanderbilt and they call them interviews and televisions, we'd stand to the side. And let our Mansia take over.
We didn't realize he was a showman and he played really well. By the second time we play with him in Iceland and the Risinger, we had no idea. We just compare one by record score and just left. I think we had a party that night and got kicked out of the hotel of the night we won. But, we didn't realize he was the greatest for awhile is then when we did realize, we said, well, let's make him the guy that the talker he's a guy. He should talk to the television.
John: this is his legacy. What th the state of the game now is the legacy of SIA as the, as the main promotional piece.
Ron: yes, we can see that he was the guy. He was our Messiah,
John: you had one the blue ribbons with Bobby and like 1980, right? So this wasn't your.
Ron: 1979. I was second. I was second in the rise here in 79. I wasn't a blue ribbon parents with him and yeah, 79 in Cincinnati. I
John: And was that like an amateur where you were you getting paid to play bridge at this point? Or?
Ron: yes, I was getting, I was on the first to get paid when, Clarence copper, I was going around and playing and pain, Mark layer and Mike, the Bruce Ferguson. I was part of that clan. I got to go with all these guys, all these T I just didn't like it. I didn't like the fact that you would sleep. Five to a room and, and on Sunday night, all pile into the car and drive 500 miles to the next one.
That was just not a great idea. So I dropped out I remember Mark, Larry moved to St. Louis for awhile because we had a rubber bridge club and he was the most serious player ever at that time. he and I played on the Clarence team every now and then, so I know I played bridge, but, uh, what got me back into it.
Was Bobby Lovett
John: so w what are we talking about here?
Ron: about, 70, 1977. Bobby Levin was a teenager and I had heard of him, what had happened is I got, knocked out on the spin, go by five M's in the semifinals. When I thought we had won easily and the team was. The two best players in St. Louis at the time was, Larry Coker and Charlie Wiley. And, I played with Steve bloom and Mark layer.
Steve bloom has his legendary thing, but I played with him. He and I were partners before. Betty Puckett. Well, she wanted to play with him and when they moved to Schenectady, that was it. We were done. But, Steve Lewis from St. Louis and we all played on a team in North clarinet in St. Louis
John: so you were five handed this team.
Ron: five headed on the spindle.
And we got to the semifinals and we were beating a lot of big teams. And now we played a Curtis Smith. Eddie world. And I forget who the rest them were there. Maybe they had Hammond and Wolf on their team. I'm not sure who their team was, but, They had some strange people. They didn't have handled.
Well then dinky wise, wise Edith camp, they had a pretty weird team they got off to a 20, 29 amp lead after three quarters. And I thought we had a great game and our teammates had given up. They had a bad board or two, the first two boards they gave up, they even went and had drinks and they didn't even drink had drinks. And I guess the pressure got to him. We didn't make him play every board. So I can't just really bad mouth them to the, to the end because they had played unbelievably good up until that, you know, all of a sudden this quarter, they, you know, felt like it was over and. And they thought they had to release something in order to feel okay.
Right. But they might've avoided that one club double with three overtricks last board vulnerable. We only lost by size, that was weird. So I quit bridge for awhile and, a guy named, while bill, bill, Doroshow called me up and says, I think I'm going to get you back in bridge. I have a partner for you.
Because the blue room pairs and we're, it was Atlanta and there was some, this kid named Bobby Lebanon. I think he was 17. So I agreed and I went and played and we finished ninth. And I remember at the end I was getting lessons on discipline. Like, you know, having your bed. That was like a new concept to me. we had never heard of that before in St. Louis. You know, if you say you promise this many points, you're actually supposed to have that many points a hundred percent of the time. Oh really? So I ended up playing with this kid who was like fantastic, so he calls me in February. And says, how would you like to go into a regional and make money and done that?
And I said, okay. So I show up and, bud Ryan Hall, he and I, and we play, we win the regional, the knockout and all these years, I thought it was Bobby and I, we had great sessions, but after a little contemplation, it might've been signed in cocaine.
John: Uh, I.
Ron: They were on the team, didn't know who these guys were, but they never had a bad board. Or as Nick, Nick was saying a bad trick,
John: for those in the audit and the listening audience, I'm gonna slow it down just a little bit here. These are, two names who I, I know, only because they were notorious for not having the greatest ethics in the, in the world, they were con they were convicted. I mean, right. They were,
Ron: They were convicted as a pair and suspend it. Finally, they let them both in and then Simon was convicted again for cheating, maybe twice after that. And he, for sure, you got convicted twice. And I think the second or third time they gave him a life sentence. He was just, he just couldn't help himself. And he wasn't, and he was a genius too.
John: what did they get them for? Do you remember like the originally, what were they doing?
Ron: The original, they were signaling with pencils, with their distribution or their strength. They, the way they positioned the pencil, but there might've not have been every time they do it. They might've been, they might've switched the signals up every now and then. But they played in the grand national teams and there had people there watching them and they cracked the code.
John: do you think sine and Coca knew that they were being washed
Ron: Oh yeah. You know, they were being watched all the time, but they thought they were smarter than other people because they were being watched all the time. The time I played with him in the Vanderbilt, we now go play in the Vanderbilt in Houston bobbin. And he gets you on the team in Houston. And I go play with Vanderbilt and Houston, 1978.
And we get to, I think the quarterfinals, when they had so many people watching them, they didn't play so well, but in one round, somebody comes up to me and I'm from St. Louis. I can think who would cheat. That's how we felt. We fueled and cheated bridge. There was no reason to cheat. Why would you cheat? You could still go have beer and pizza.
If you had all zeros, nobody, nobody will laugh at you after the second beer. So, no, we didn't know. I go there and the first match, I remember we waited a long time, Bob minutes. So finally we each had a, a drink. I think we had, a white, Russian or something and I was pretty looped. They come back, we compare our scores. And we don't notice that on some hand where we're in for a space making five, no problem.
Draw trumps, give them two tricks. And three second hand, our partners are descending four hearts, double and beat the opponents 500 on the same hand, they got to their eight carts instead of their nine carts. And they show you that people that do to, you said it, you know, like unethical and cheat and everything.
they don't give up and they make it. They don't realize they make it obvious. The photos get the 400 somebody doubles and from four little spades that needle spade and give their partner, Rob Gideon and give them another up. Get him, give him another for the four or 500, we could just like pass and, you know,
John: it's like the stuff online now, you know,
I really want to have a self kibitzer on the podcast because I want to be like, so like, how did you. How did you rein it in, you know, like how, where, where did you reign it in and when did you like really go for it? When did you like, man, I'm going to get caught. Cause I'm doing this.
Ron: They never seen the rain and end. I mean, they get like nine straight big boards. And I always think that, you know, they look at all my scores. If I get one or two good boards, you know, I'm going to be close in almost every match or, you know, win. If I get one or two, um, you know, boards that are out from left field, because most of the matches you lose, you lose by a little.
I mean, I met an, I would have needed three hands in the USB F we lost by 31 and then, you know, wanna want a segment, you know, get one pan a segment, and then drop back. Eventually somebody smart is going to start cheating. We're never going to catch it. Well, we had a hard time catching. They never really caught, uh, several of the cheaters. I mean, they have a book about the blue team, but you know, they're all, they're all denying it or they did win 15 years in a row. Be lot of people.
John: I mean, I think it's cute that you're telling the story about Kevin Rosenberg's birth. earlier given that we played the U SPF event, I played with Kevin, you know, and you played with Oren, like, that's pretty cool that you know that here we are in present day teaming up with that little bridge genius.
Uh, he's got he can't, can't ask for a better bridge jeans than, and what he's got. I don't think.
Ron: no. And then also instructors and everything. I mean, he's a very good player and he's in his early twenties and you've got so many of them like that. Now orange was very good player. And he's was just 25 or maybe it's 26. I'm not sure I'm not keeping up because I don't want, you know, I don't want him to pass me, so.
John: By the way Michael Zhou figured out how old you were based on the research that he did that on you. I'm not going to reveal it. I did not publish that part in the bridge winners article. I said, looking for stories for you, but, we have, we have a little master of deduction.
He said it using math. I figured out how old Ron is.
Ron: So you found pictures of me in the last century last two centuries.
John: I don't want to reveal, I don't want to make it so that anybody else can look up this information, you know,
Ron: Okay. Good. Well, I've gotten to the age of the people, you know, I'm sort of respecting my age now a little bit then. especially since I did pass my sister up, I used to be the youngest in the family. According to my sisters. I am now the oldest. I don't know what the hell happened.
John: So you have more, how many sisters do you have?
Ron: had five
John: Oh my goodness.
Ron: Yeah.
John: Are they all still alive?
Ron: two of them have not three of them. Now, three of them are deceased. The only two are alive and I have one brother and he's alive.
John: I have three sisters. That's why I asked
Ron: Yeah, my, I was the youngest. I swear I was not a garden to them.
John: the family.
Ron: I know
John: Um, what about, fin Kolesnik, you know, he wasn't, on the list of questions, but, I'm wondering, you know, you're playing with Bobby Levin. Who's one of the great players in the game. When he was 17, it sounds like he was giving you lessons on having your bed.
Ron: Yeah. Yeah. Well, essentially from all the people I played with and mentored, it started out, it always ends up at some point I'm the, like the main guy. And then after a while, same thing happened with, Hamsun grew a crayon yak, all these guys. Now the teacher now gets the lessons.
Hey, no extra charge. I get them free.
John: But Finn has had sort of a meteoric rise in, in the game, like you've and I think you've played with them at least online a little bit like what do you, Bobby Levin's, this is pretty, pretty,
Ron: Maybe 11 is pretty hard to do as far as
John: That's pretty good company.
Ron: he's pretty hard to be trauma when he was cause he, Bobby played with all the top experts from New York from the beginning and he, and then moved down to Florida and play with it all by the time Bobby was 18 or 19, he was world-class easily and mean we play when we played in these events.
I mean, we won these things. With no problem, almost everything. And that was another thing. When we went to the blue room pairs, we won by, I don't know, five, six boards or something or something huge score.
John: Yeah. World-class, that's the ultimate designation you can put that in your bridge winner's profile. I mean, your bridge base, your bridge base, you know, that's one of the, that's one of the options for there. I mean that, you know, that's a nice compliment, but,
Ron: But most of the people that put it in there, put it in.
John: I know, but I mean, like, I mean, that's just, it, it reminds me too of when Larry Cohen came out of retirement, it's like, They've got some young kid to come, you can come play with this young kid. And that's the, I just, I see it like history repeating itself, with, how you got back into the game.
Ron: Right. That's how I got back. I CA I got back by playing with Bobby Levin when he was 17 or 18
John: why didn't he have a partner if he was playing with the New York experts, do you know?
Ron: was playing on professional teams and he played with the client. He played with bud Reinhold and he played with the Florida guys and they were, Michael Seaman's dad. Billy seaman played with Russell Marinol.
And they would have the Edith camps occasionally. And what else did they have? They had the, who do they have down there? They had to, they had the best team, as I recall, they had all the old guys, they had, uh, David Strasberg, who was also on the precision team at one point.
John: was Billy semen, a pro
Ron: Yes,
John: what was he like?
Ron: he was a top player and, they all played raw stone.
They taught me Ross stone. everything was written in stone. Billy seaman talked to Al Roth for an hour or two every day. So his nickname was the Pope. He got the information from the hearts, his mouth.
John: But Ray Roth seemed like he was kind of a Dick from what I've heard.
Ron: He was,
he was pretty funny and entertaining. And the one thing people have to realize Al Ross probably invented almost all. Everything. We play five card majors forcing no Trump two over one game forces, negative doubles, usual, no Trump, I think everything, but the week to bit constructive raises, preemptive jump shifts, control Sykes, almost the whole game we play.
John: That's amazing.
Ron: a genius genius. Maybe there's somebody would say, well, he had help. I don't know, but nobody's disputing the story is like he is the guy and stone was a great player also. I guess before, pot was legal, a lot of the rich player smoked pot. they had this one t-shirt, which would be irrelevant now, but at the time it was the t-shirt I play Roth stoned and we did,
John: Okay.
Ron: bridge was, uh, everybody was younger. It was like nine in the 80. I think that was the golden era bridge. Everybody was young and. We had wrestled the world championships from the Italians and now America was like the bridge center and, everybody you see that's running around old malware, 20, 30, or 40
John: so you were around when the ACEs were, the team
Ron: Yes. The ASIS came on the scene, I think in 1969 and Cleveland nationals. yeah, the ACEs then start, dominating, but along came the precision team with Peter Whitesell and, who else had had, uh, Sontag became the sixth member? I remember at the end they had five members, They, these guys came along and they won the spin go two years in a row beat.
It won the first bingo they won. They beat five of the best teams in America, the five top teams, all in a row. And by sizable margins to these matches, weren't even close. Even the one against the ACEs. Wasn't close.
John: Yeah, they were just featured on the cover of the, of the bridge bulletin. I read some of that. I don't think I read the whole art. I think I did read the whole article because I mean, I've gotten to know why sell a little bit now he's playing with Hammond, which is funny. Cause you were saying they were both on the, the two big teams of the, of the day.
Ron: I know. And I just want a, um, buffet cut with a Peter Whitesell and Hammond in China. Well, not just one. It was it last August? Oh no, August before last this August we were inside.
John: it was the year that was the Bermuda bowl. You won the buffet cup
Ron: 2019,
John: Han with 2019. Yeah.
Ron: One the,
John: So like the month before the Bermuda bowl or something in China.
Ron: in China or maybe it was, yeah, it was in August. I remember. And we went over there. We had to beat, China and York and we got off to, nobody can figure out the scoring. We got off to a huge lead, I guess, and held onto him by a fraction. At the end. And I remember everybody rushing over to the table at the end, since nobody understood the scoring who won
John: Did buffet know this event was happening.
Ron: well, he, he, um, had a presentation speech.
Yeah. There was a huge, uh, presentation, um, by video and satellite and everything. So
John: And what did he say? What was the gist of it?
Ron: Well, he gave the usual welcoming speech, you know, and stuff and made the best team win and all that kind of stuff. And we were supposed to get the buffet cup sent to us, but I think the, uh, somebody broke it and ups lost it for awhile.
John: That's classic bridge. That's the legacy of Zia is the, as the chief promotional tool of the, of bread.
Ron: make it,
John: Yeah. We won the buffet cup, but the trophy is elsewhere. Yeah.
Ron: didn't make it
John: One of the first stories I wanted to ask you about is not really a Ron Smith story, but it's a story about a friend of both of ours, Justin law, when, he came out to visit you in San Francisco at the party.
Ron: he came out to visit me after his, bridge X F Capay get recovered. And he came out to visit me and stay with me for two weeks. I guess I was a bad influence, but anyway,
one of the nights, there was a big party at an in-law apartment down from me. I lived in a house in San Francisco with an in-law apartment. So you look down in their courtyard, you see there was a big party and they're all Justin's age. They were in their twenties, early twenties to mid twenties, late twenties, maybe.
And so I was very good friends with the people downstairs. Because on several occasions, I would bring champagne, red wine lobster and whatever. I was in, good with him. So I called Dennis. I had this young friend from out of town. Could we come down and be at your party for a while? And they'd all come around down.
So I come down with Justin and Justin, there are a lot of good looking girls, Brazilian girls, a lot of good, like even, and I knows. So Justin now hits on all the girls and left it. Right. But I guess he hit on somebody whose girlfriend and, and the guy turned around and says he was upset with justice. I thought you were gay. and Justin, like out of the blue, look at him and says, I'm going to take that as a compliment. You think I'm good looking well, dressed I'll take that as a compliment.
John: Oh my God.
Ron: And so then I did one night, a week go out these girls from the, caddies who I thought were young, but they didn't, I guess they are young, but they were. 21 release. They came to town and we go out to dinner and Justin buys the dinner and they said, we now want to go to a club, but we want to go to a sit-down club, not a club where you dance and be crazy.
That's okay. I know where to go. So we, I take them to the cliff room, to the red room in the cliff hotel, which is a fancy bar and it got to be fancier. The next time I went with Chris Compton and Donna, they said it was $750 to sit out. So we thought we better
John: that's probably cause you were with Chris and Donna.
Ron: been, we went to the bar next door though. We drove some never. So we're in this bar and Justin smoked cigarettes and he said, let's go smoke a cigarette. You can smoke what you normally smoke. So we go outside, it's it, San Francisco. And we come back in, I didn't want to be racist or anything I said, but some black guy stolen our girls cutting.
Uh, what's his name? Tuba junior Cody gunny. Yeah, it was him. So we couldn't compete. We settle up our tablet. The girls made new friends while we out.
John: Um,
Ron: Yeah. So that was the part of the, uh, Justin visit. It was, it was, uh, Ryan for two weeks. I just stay home and rest up and rest up. After he left,
John: what were the circumstances of him coming out there?
Ron: he knew that I would probably be good for him, which he was wrong about that.
And he wanted to be around friends and he was on his way to a turn I think in Australia. And this would be a stopping off point. And so he said, I'll go and it was wrong because we go way back. I remember when he was a teenager, I used to play every now and then with him. Well, I always played all the kids in the midnight game.
That's my favorite. Now they treat me like I should be, I play the first match and, they send me for the pizza and then they talk to me. I wake up, I wake up a winner in the morning and the last match, the last one I won, I won, Zayas. Was that our last national? Oh no, we, I, one say San Francisco was the one in Vegas.
I think in Vegas, I played the midnight my teammates were Zia son and his girlfriend and they carried us. So I went with Z again
John: Oh, my gosh.
Ron: taller than Zia. Very smart, personal young man,
John: Mm. Hmm. Yeah. Well, I mean, I believe at Z as a V Z as a, I'm sure a good influence on him.
Ron: dumb, curious
John: Yeah. Yeah. He takes a lot of pride in his, boys.
Ron: Yeah. Longer. I've gotten to know Zia. The more I've been impressed at first, I wasn't. But how do we get these guys? Can we do better? We couldn't do better. That's okay.
John: but it really is. I mean, it really is an interesting story. It's a, it's, you know, it's a black guy, a black American, a Canadian Jew, an Indian, uh, Hindi and a Pakistani Muslim. I mean, that's you know, that that's pretty cool.
Ron: Yeah, that was, that was, that was something. And I still keep in contact with Jackie. He stays in India. I've seen him twice in India in the last few years. And he just, uh, he said he was proud of me because I am playing online. Well, I play with all the juniors online. I enjoy it. I mean, And I'm playing with a kid from India, he's 16 and he's making around, he's starting to play with all the other juniors.
And then that's my goal is I play with them for awhile. So the other, you get them up to speed. So the other juniors will want to play with them, got to make their little society to keep going.
John: that's cool, man. You, you do have that reputation, you know, I mean, Michael alluded to that, that you're a junior. Uh, they they're, they consider you an honorary junior.
Ron: Oh, yeah, that's true. Because they figured they can get away. Well, yeah, I guess they could
John: So did you go to college? Like I know you, I know you were a trader in Chicago, but did you go to college or did you just get that job through being connected to people in the
Ron: I went to college, but did they get the trading job? You have to be connected. I don't. I think the in the bridge world, It was my way in because, who, uh, started at, uh, the godfather was Ron Rubin and, he started trading. I think he CA he, I thought he wanted a back immature, but he actually came second.
He told me, and he took the money back to New York and paid off some debts and started trading again. And this time he made money. And so now he invited his good friends, Mike Becker and Jeff Wilson. And they made a lot of money. And then they, then the chain started, they realized that bridge players were games players, and this was a game and my number came up and, uh, the one who pushed my number was once again, Bobby 11th, I would say that he's probably been, he and Billy call has been one, I would say for sure, Bobby 11 has been like the best friend over the years of anybody. Anything that's happened. Good in my life. Usually Bobby's had something to do with it. Yeah.
John: Well, I appreciate it. Cause I, I told you, I posted in bridge winners and Bobby actually commented on my post. so Oren told me that ask you about the McDonald's story.
Ron: Oh, that was
John: And then Bobby said, just throw the ball at, tell Ron to throw the ball as deep as possible. So I don't know anyway, your, your floor.
Ron: was throwing the ball deep as possible. You're playing football way back in the day in Florida. and we get, who was it? Michael Simon, a young, very young Michael seaman back when we could beat him easily, things did change. And so we played football, gets him, and we can't remember who the fourth was, but he would hand me the ball and said, whenever, as soon as you get the ball through it to me, and of course I had to look over the defense. Fool around and it usually didn't get the ball. Now, the McDonald's story was in Detroit. And so while, I mean, I would always have this story where we would play Paris. We almost won every pair we play in regional pairs. When you have to beat the whole room, be like 20 sections. I think we played 12 of them in 1979, one eight of them and came in the top four and the other four.
And so we played a parent game and Detroit was huge Hill, all sarcasm, red Berry crane. And so as usual, after the seventh round, most events we played in, we go to our separate trash cans and rip up our scorecards and come back and play. And so once again, we had done it. And so we left the, Coldwell hall, I think it's where we played and we weren't speaking.
We go back to our rum, your party a little bit, but we don't talk about the bridge. The next morning we get up arguing left and right. And I will not agree with him and he won't agree with me. So we go to McDonald's in downtown Detroit, everybody in the McDonald's was black, except for me. He got his food and, went over and, sat down. And I got mine and I sat down on the other side. Yeah. After about five minutes, he was agreeing with all my bitch. He came over.
John: I
Ron: I can do nothing wrong up until we got back to Cobra hall, then everything changed, go back and go to the hall. It's like, take all that back. I hate your bids was there for awhile. I was the right. I was right.
John: my goodness.
Ron: No bridge roads were characters back in the day and we did have fun and a lot of fucking. I think so. Yeah,
John: I could see Bobby being a good athlete.
Ron: he was, he was, he played tennis and he was good at baseball and was good at tennis, baseball, whole bunch of sports. He was good at. he played everything and he went all out. That was a big part of his day was exercise and doing something in sports. That was, that was big.
John: yeah, he said he had, he said he has a lot of stories, but, the only one that he chose to mention was this football one, which I feel like you're shortchanging me on, frankly. I feel like you're giving me the, the very PG rated rated G version really.
Ron: I've already said enough naughty things that people will be coming back after me. I'm sure.
John: did you know Justin was sick.
Ron: I had heard he was, but I didn't know he was as sick as he was. said he had to quit bridge. And then somebody told me that he was ill and needed to take care of himself. But I didn't know it was as bad as it was.
John: Did you go to the Memorial service they had.
Ron: Yes.
John: Yeah. Cause cause Bob Hammond said something that really stuck with me in his tribute when he said that, Justin made him think twice about reincarnation because he saw, he saw it. He reminded him so much of as walled or Ozzy, Jacoby. Yeah.
Ron: was definitely a great player. Great guy. We all loved hanging around with him. Now we have Joe boo Joe growth, and he did one of the greatest things a long time. we played in a match. He and I used to be teammates. He played with Curtis cheeks. I played with Billy Cohen Bruce Ferguson played with Bob Holman. We were down at some point 90 amps in this match. And I think only 79 at the half would for boards to go, Joe stops to compare us as we're going to win, but nobody jumped up and down because everybody on the other side are our friends.
And so he says, go, go over and congratulate, you know, condolence and then accept the congrats. Then we'll go upstairs to my room. We'll open up, then we'll yell. And to me, that's what you should do. Why would you yell? Except for, except for one situation, I found this out. If you think you lost go to your corner, yell, like you won, they'll quit comparing and come over and congratulate you. If you had to win that bet. That's how you do is give the preemptive Yale, the other guys quit comparing. They assume you won.
John: How old was Joe, when he said that
Ron: Jill had said, this has to be, this is back. this had to be in the early nineties. I mean, he was pretty young. I mean, he had to. Maybe not, not the early nineties. Now this had to be in the 2000. When was this? Because I played against him in Gavin in 95 when they had to be teenagers when Joe doubled Tunno pass pass, when I opened two now, and I'm playing with Brad Moss,
John: Oh, you were the guy. Love it, dude.
Ron: I'm the guy that opened tuna and went fast pass and Joe doll. It would fast pass. Brad boss was right there with the readable eight high card points. Yeah. There was some open pair. It was a national pair. One of those secondary ones. I think they used to have them back to back. And this is the Vancouver, Washington. Yeah.
John: Then wait, the nationals are in Vancouver, Washington.
Ron: Vancouver, BC. British cotton. This was like a fabulous national, but as usual bridge players put cigarettes out on the floor and the carpet and did all kinds of deranged things. So we're not invited back ever.
John: Oh my gosh. I've gone gambling in Vancouver, Washington. That's why.
Ron: No, Columbia is, this was a fabulous city that most it's gotta be in. It's not the best national. Mostly, I would say it's for sure. Second. I mean, I
John: Yeah. And I've never been there. I'd love to go there. I have friends there and I've heard great things about it.
Ron: I mean, I take that over Vegas or anything. Anytime I'm in Vegas is good. Now they play the nationals, continuing a cosmopolitan type thing, but I don't know if and when, when we move ever go live and will ever be that big again. I don't think so. I don't think so. They got to think smaller.
John: So will you explain that Brad Moss, to know, the passing with eight high card points,
Ron: well, the, the thing at the time, Barry cream popper realized that it'd be, Oh, they opened two now. And it goes past, past you double and match points and get the top. Okay. So I guess, he knew Joe boo was knew all the moves, so went to no pass and it was late in the session. Neither one was going to win.
Might've been the last round or something and would pass. So he said I'll pass knowing his customer and sure enough and Joe blow double. Okay. We don't. Okay.
John: Gavin was the fourth person at the table.
Ron: he liked fainted when he saw the dog. Yeah. Gavin could have been more than 40 or 50.
John: Oh my God. Oh my God. What did Brad say? Gotcha.
Ron: Yeah. He, Brad was laughing on controllable. It was do funny. We're all laughing except for Gavin. Yeah, it was not amused. He was a serious teenager
John: I mean, that's probably the most legendary psych that I know of.
Ron: Brad's thing. That's yeah, it's up in my, some of my it's a little time here.
John: Oh my gosh, Joe. Wow.
Ron: Well, that's one of the last, really good boards I've gotten against Joe.
John: Oh, man, for those who don't know, Joe and Brad are partners now, too. So, that's you know, pretty,
Ron: won a world championship together and degradable or one of those big ones they've done very well
John: Oh yeah. They won the Bermuda bowl with the on Fleischer
Ron: Yes.
we used to be teammates w way back in the day, I used to give the lessons and now it's. Hey, what do you got? Throw out some names, throw out some info. Joe, give us some knowledge.
John: do you think you're as good as you were. 20 years ago, or like you think you're better?
Ron: I've learned so many more things and that's like, the game is completely changed. I mean, back, 20 years ago I needed 14 points over the bidding, but now as, Joe grew calls me, Joe boo, Ron light. I'm out there with 10, 11, like everybody else.
John: What's the most recent thing you think you've learned that like is a shift from how you've always played or something? Yeah.
Ron: Well, mainly the strategy, just, you know, getting their light, especially non-violent, it's getting there. Like you definitely want to do. We sort of did that. I did that with Bobby 11. We. Open preempts. If you're non vulnerable against a vulnerable first seat, your preempt should be a psych. In other words, you don't have anything. And you just put that sort of like almost like a fert bed. You put three spades in their face, they're vulnerable, and then they forget that you're there. They you're probably down six and they bid whatever they can. And we had that once. And I learned this from bill, uh, from Bobby 11. He went to clubs when I left and were in there around the VATE and they Vanderbilt, you know, playing on a tough team.
We're stuck 19 going into the fourth quarter. I think the second board went to clubs and he bit three hearts against the wall and it went four hearts and I did seven hearts and we passed, passed seven spades. All Pat and I let my answer diamonds. They were downloading. Yeah, no tracks. Did we guarantee that non-core versus all, no side ACEs or Kings.
And I had the ACE of diamonds and the King jacks at the hearts. And so I knew he had at least six. I mean, he was, you know, he usually had seven,
John: Right.
Ron: so I knew he had no tricks and I knew they could make six. I have a suit. So I did seven hearts and now they, backed in the seventh spades I hate pre-amps three hearts, double five hearts.
Usually most people were saying, okay, it's okay to bed because they don't have anything, you know, you should have something. So in case they do bit, they don't just, they're not right. Every time they did.
John: I haven't been asking a lot of, bidding, uh, been giving a lot of bidding problems on the show, but, uh, I have, I have a hand for you. will, you You indulge me? So you have a four little ACE queen, ten fourth King fourth stiff queen.
Ron: Cool.
John: So the auction is you're not vulnerable and opponents are vulnerable I'm not sure if partner deals or lefty deals.
I think lefty deals and passes and your partner passes. It goes one. No pass you pass. it goes two diamonds pass two hearts. You pass passing out. Partner balances with double.
Ron: they screen for the heart.
John: Yeah.
Ron: Well, he said would work out too well for me, I go to space or I hope to crack through yeah.
Was an idea.
John: Yeah.
Ron: I seen him make three hearts after I pushed him. So, I mean, two, you got to realize that most likely with my luck, you know, I'll get off to the wrong lead and we're behind the eight ball to start out with. So we, you know,
John: you need to lead the cleaner clubs to hold it to too.
Ron: Oh, wow. Yeah. I'm not a passer. I don't use, I'm telling bad things happen. I push in Missouri and maybe I'll set them.
John: Oh my gosh. Well, so Finn had a, this was what I was playing with fan and the Schaefer game and Finn had a queen Jack fourth. any at ACE Jack force of clubs
Ron: if it were a little dot and three little D
John: three, three little diamonds.
Ron: was, he was in the past that. He's aggressive, you know, that's, don't punish him for being aggressive.
He's very aggressive. I mean, he's a junior bridge. I've played two regionals with him. I ever played in that. I don't think I've played on national with him yet. Play two regionally, a host of online things. I mean, entire regional, right. He was my partner. And most of the time one of my best stories.
I played with Harrison Luba. Fan and Jacob Freeman, the three of us went to New York and played in the regional and Finn's dad and his sister came and they were on our team twice. and I had these kids for the week. It was a lot of fun.
John: How'd you do?
Ron: we finished high and I think we had one second and two thirds. And I think we finished in every event. Hi, you know, like fourth, I think it was at worse. I think we were even third in the, uh, and just miss, coming in, second or second and the border match for a session border match. The four of us.
John: so Harrison was playing with, Jacob
Ron: no, I play with Jacob Freeman and CN and Harrison played together. Yeah, there was 15. And what was it? 14 and 15 at the time. One was 14 was the other 50 and I had the old guy 18.
John: yeah, I was surprised. this was like the one hand that I had within where I was like, I mean, I didn't say, I just was surprised. I thought he, I thought he would have more in terms of tricks.
Ron: That's Kevin Rosenberg, Kevin Rosenberg, and, uh, Oren Kriegel are the only ones not playing junior bridge and they are, they have their bids and the adults, I guess.
John: well, Kevin is, I mean, I love playing with Kevin he's he's he's really
Ron: Yeah, he's very good. It's uh, I suggested him to you. I told you to play with him. He's the guy
John: Yeah. I mean, yeah.
Ron: you don't get me every now and then, uh, when they needed a fourth and it was Kevin, Adam, and Ben, and they wanted to practice well, I'm in the game.
John: Is that how you and Adam started the partnership that ended up you're playing the USBs event together at this is Adam Kaplan.
Ron: Oh, no, no. I played with Adam Kaplan, back in the day and the St. Louis national, there was this event, called the Ron Smith open pairs in St. Louis. I entered the event with him and we didn't do too well because I, it was all my fault. I forgot to wear a name tag. So somebody I know who I was.
John: I mean, I know they do that for the nationals, but who called it such? Do you know?
Ron: you can find the event. And some friend of mine bought the event
John: Ah, that's sweet.
Ron: her name is Sandy Freeman. In case she listened to this podcast, I better drop her name somewhere.
John: She probably doesn't Chaz's RG does it, unless you send it to her.
Ron: Well, she's already. I already have so many people said, send them the podcast.
John: Oh, cool. Oh, that's great.
Ron: many people, even Billy Cohen called up this morning and said he wanted, he definitely wants to see him.
John: No way. Well, shit, now that I feel pressure,
Ron: Linda.
John: we gotta, we gotta step. I gotta step it up. I'm over here, yawning. I already recorded another podcast today with this guy, Scott Hoffer, who developed a tricky bridge.
Ron: Oh, that guy. Yeah, it looks promising
John: Yeah, it is. I mean, I've been sending it to people and people are saying good things about it.
Like people, you know, people who don't play bridge at all. So.
Ron: yeah, that's what we need. Something that he can get them started right away, you know, get them into the game. So, cause it's a huge startup, but that's why when you work with kids, you don't have to do much. You give them a book and they read it overnight and they know all about it, you
John: Well, what book would you give a kid if you're doing that?
Ron: I'm not sure what the best be a beginning books are anymore.
I don't know who writes the best who gets started at Audrey grant? I don't think so. I think hers is key to, uh, I think it's better to teach them the fundamentals of the game, like the card part of it, and then let them read the next advanced book. Because most of the kids, they get it. People say, what do you teach to the kids?
You don't teach them anything. They come back, they read two books and they play better than you are like the third week and be like, what the hell happened here? Now the kids learn really fast. They learn really fast and then they get with each other. And they pick it up. I mean, it's like any teaching, older people to trouble.
Cause they can't remember much. We were really bad at that. So
John: well, since Billy's is going to be listening, what's a story that, you can tell for his benefit.
Ron: we had so many, uh, it, at one point we was the longest. partnership playing together at a time, we had been playing 41 years together at one point. Now it's shame, uh, chambers and, uh, Schermer I guess they had, they, they now gone by us but, we're still playing together.
I'm going to play with, Billy and, uh, is that online in January? And we played on one earlier was this time he's going to be a Florida. He doesn't have to get up and start playing at seven o'clock in the morning and play all day five, six days in a row that didn't work well.
John: glue Bach in the, in the bridge winners thread asks about a seven, no Hannah Zia played against you in the, uh, Risinger.
Ron: Oh,
John: You were playing with glue buck as
Ron: in glue Bach and, uh, our teammates. Oh, we, we finished fourth and I think we're less than a board out of first. And they're saying how great these guys played and they're standing on the stage, but Zia and Michael bit seven. No, I think it was seven or something. I think it was seven now against CapitaLand and K.
Took her for an ass, caught a three-three break and then squeezed him to make it so that, so they were standing on the stage instead of us
John: So, this is what your teammates were Caplin and
Ron: Kaplan. K, I think it was his last tournament. He had his head down on the table. He was suffering big time from the cancer, but he played the last quarter and he w last session. And I think he spent as. Session playing with his head, physically laying on the table and pulling his cards out. That's how bad he felt.
The pain, pain medicine was not working. So
John: I don't know much about him.
Ron: he was for sure, one of the all time, all time grades, great writer, great sense of humor. He had it, the edit death, Edgar caplets. Yes. He was the guy. I mean, he was very, you know, he could be biting sense of humor was very diplomatic. Who was it? Uh, Catherine Ray, who was new on the scene was in the finals of the Vanderbilt, 1975.
And she donated all her time and money to the league. So they don't want to say anything bad about her. She's in four of a major. And she had a five, four fit. They broke two too, but she threw, she drew a third round of trumps, which killed a winner. Now she had to go down one. And so, uh, in the bridge world cap on the road, Mrs.
Way, miss time, the play,
John: You read the bridge world.
Ron: Yes, I'm in a, I'm one of the panelists I've been for. I can't remember. You can check my age on that one too. Since it's done age I'm in the pamphlets. Yeah. I haven't said anything about Bob Hammond. The one guy I love to beat, and usually I'd beating at a rubber bridge. And I don't have to travel for it, but I play against him a tournament and we played two boards. We played for 25 cents a point, at least a dime something. And I remember one time, uh, I'm playing with gala castle and castle gala was shocked.
Gala who invented professional bridge. I think, he and I replay and we play against Hammond Wolf and we have two, two boards. I think we got two zeros. Cause I saved, played the bidding. We bid a grand slam and a smallest land. I won $800, but I think I got to go to near zeros. And so we had to
John: On the ground.
Ron: the ground and had to do this on the other one, or maybe you had to bid seven on the second one, but we settled for a,
I settle for don't money on the second. Yeah. And so will says, everybody's happy. We got tops. You got money. Everybody's happy. And Bob's donor's soaking. He is, you got two good boards. He had maybe $800.
John: So whenever you play against Bob in a pair event, uh, do you have to, do you have to mention it or is it just, uh, it's just,
Ron: we mentioned it, but we almost always mentioned it
John: Oh my gosh.
Ron: and it was the usual. Yes.
John: Was there a time when there were rubber bridge clubs, like across the country?
Ron: Oh, yes. Everywhere. Every city had a rubber bridge club in lots of players. That's where I grew up in the rubber bridge club. St. Louis had a huge rubber, rich club and the people played for a lot of money because people from out of town came all the time. Hammond Cain, Curtis Smith. Solloway a few times they came to play rubber rich in our club.
I was with Jacoby, came back in the day and they, we had
John: Before it was Justin.
Ron: Was before he was just in, right Justin? He played against one of our star players, uh, Kilpatrick. He was really a bad player. I mean, he ducked the first five tricks in three, no, with 10 off the top, you know, he was really bad. So they're playing against him in a high state game. I'm watching. Cause it's more than they not be normally played for.
And so then they, you're probably playing for like a dollar. And we normally play for a nickel at the club had most occasionally died. And so Kilpatrick Goldman's three spades and also Jacoby had Jack 10, nine, fourth in spades and a smattering, a high card. so he doubled three spades, which was penalty double.
So he led the jacket clubs. And the dummy hit with two little spades, four little four little and queen third.
John: Oh my God.
Ron: So Kilpatrick put the queen of clubs up and it held the trick. Now let us spade off the Damien and Ozzie Jacoby's partner showed out. So Kilpatrick, it opened three spades ACE King queen seventh and space, age King, third to clubs.
And now main exactly three spades double when the Spain's went for all. So Jacoby looked at him and says, how could you open three spades? And then Gilpatrick looked at and said, I didn't read your book. I didn't read that one. And this guy was really bad, but they occasionally he would get them.
John: Did Ozzy actually write a book or was it
Ron: Honestly, he had a lot of books, obviously was famous for playing in the lens, cupboards in match. So he goes way back. I was just, he was the first person that went a thousand points in one year. And I mean, he won world champions way back in the day, beat to Hootsuite and kept it going. And even when the rising are in his eighties and that's like, you know, nobody else has done that.
John: was he the same one who was on the ACEs or was that a
Ron: That was his son, Jim Juco. And not nearly as rumor has it about short dude that, uh, not in his dad's class at all. His dad was one of the all time out there,
John: but they don't have any offspring that are like, there aren't any Jacoby's in the, in the virtual
Ron: No, Jacoby's in the bridge world today. Yeah, that's a shame. But there for awhile, nobody wanted their kids to play. They thought bridge was bad for them. And I guess bridge was bad. They were in it for awhile and, but. People dropped out of school and did everything just to play bridge.
The bridge was so glorious. There were no other avenues for anything. So, but today the kids there, nobody drops out and yet they become good, really good players managed to get to a few tournaments and they all graduate and they ended up having high paying jobs. So times have changed. I don't know if anyone, I mean, we had one kid that thought about dropping out John Barth, but I think he now owns his own company or some, or part of a company and making kazillions I talked.
And I said, if you finish school, I'll help you become a professional player. So once you finished school, he got a job offer for big money and it just kept, I mean, he doesn't even play bridge anymore. And then I want to be a pro.
John: Now you're calling them. Like I gotta, I gotta, I got an, all of them. We can plan.
Ron: Okay. Call them up. Okay.
John: I'm looking for, are you looking to play the Nao BBC? I'm saying this is you. I'm trying to imitate you, calling them up, looking for, looking for I
Ron: I should call him
John: you, man.
Ron: I said, Colin, wasn't antagonizing John Barth. Hey, I heard you wanting to drop out of school and play some bridge. No, he doesn't. And uh, all the kids I used to play with this, other kids, he was the one that first said that, uh, foster gang, he was just a. Chinese kid looked like a little Chinese Kewpie doll and that had a deep voice and he would go for a big number. I look over and he'd say junior bridge. Now he owns a big company and he's married with kids. I think you've got two kids married and yeah, he's, I think he's from Beijing. And now he's a citizen, us citizen, even his wife, both. Then the only big company they're doing well, Eric Majeski, Carlson, Mike , uh, who's at, uh, Jenny she's, uh, who she, uh, with, uh, Aaron Jones.
John: Oh, genuine.
Ron: Lynn. Yeah, she was. She's with Aaron Jones, we call him a Ron. It's actually a comedy on, uh, one of the cable shows where this substitute teacher comes in and mispronounces everybody's name. And the guy says, Aaron, you are AA. Ron. Don't be messing with me.
John: Wait, that's actually the guy's name of the show. I mean, that's what, that's what the teacher calls
Ron: he calls everybody, wrongly their name wrong. She has everybody's their name wrong. And, and the only, and the only person that knows what to say is the he's like this black guy teacher, and the other one is the black kid knows what to say to him and keep it going. And the got mispronounces everybody and gets upset if you try to correct it.
Mispronounce is everybody's saying,
John: The, I assume the worst in this position too. I, I assume that it was like a joke on the AA that he had a drinking problem. He had a drinking problem. Oh my gosh. do you want to talk about, I think the woman you mentioned earlier also, is known better known by some as your wife. Do you want to talk about,
Ron: Well, uh, if she listens to this, I better not. We do go on a trip every year. And then she did talk me into going to a, where did we go this past year? We didn't go this year. Cause the COVID. But last year we went to picked you and, uh, Galactus and we went on a group tour. Uh, God. I do not like group tears tours because you have to do what the group does.
And I do not want to do what a group does. So we had like over two weeks of this
John: Oh, my God.
Ron: the one thing I can say about both of those places, the best thing to do is watch it on television. I don't get it. It was lovely to say I went to both places and I asked sweaters in pens that I did it, but for the money watching Nataly
John: when you think the next live bridge tournament is going to be in the United States?
Ron: I didn't think it may be whole a small one. And. The summer, but I don't think it's going to be massive. Like they used to, it's not going to be 20,000 or 10,000 tables. I mean, if they can get something together, that's, where you have like a hundred tables a day spread out, but that's going to be hard because it's going to cost a lot of money to do that.
We never bought buildings or own any property of value that we get actually hold a tournament, which is sort of amazing. Of all the bridge terms and all the money to the ACBS mate, there is no place in the country that we can go and hold the tournament without paying a huge fee. So like, I don't know. I don't think St.
Louis has, I mean, I hope St. Louis could happen, but I don't say I could, didn't have to have the vaccine and they know it to work and nobody's getting it. And because if you hold a tournament and 10 people got it, that would be a bad deal. But I think a lot more would get to be like a super spreader.
John: I mean like when the, when the code first happened, I, I didn't leave my apartment. Like I was very compliant and now it's kinda like, well, you know, this still is going on.
Ron: I know.
John: But I'm young, you know, I'm young and, um, yeah. Are you worried about it?
Ron: Well, I try to have too much about it because I know what it is. It is what you know, working, but it's, yeah, it's crazy that our government never made a plan to get us out of this. It's like we just sitting around and now they're arguing whether they should wear a mask or whatever they do. And it's most of the people where I live a lot of people where I live, I see a third or more people don't wear masks.
You go places you go outside and people walk around, no mass and people coming good. You cover the building on it. You have to have a mask on, but I've gotten into the elevator where people would mask it and they take it right off in the elevator. Yeah.
John: It's like, they're almost home.
Ron: Yeah. They take it off and says, well, nobody's watching now. That's okay.
John: Okay.
Ron: And they take it off. And then yeah, this is. And then to the denial is amazing because I was in, uh, Reykjavik in January and everybody was compliant and people wearing a mask and my bridge partner wore a mask and he was from the arc and everybody seemed to know about it in New York, in January. And everybody knew it from all over the world.
Once I got to Reykjavik and then the, our president says. How could he have known? How could he have known? Well, you got to read your briefing. You would have known.
John: Weren't you supposed to play Iceland with David Yoon?
Ron: Yeah, I did. I played this year with him this past, this year. I played
John: Cause when I was there,
Ron: the year before I
John: were supposed to, you were supposed to play with him like two or three years ago or something like I was there three years ago, I think.
Ron: was on my way there. And the strangest thing happened. The plane got canceled. And then I could go the next night and I asked him if I can move it to Thursday night, but it turned out they didn't fly on Thursday night.
And so I could never get there or else get back. It was no way to get there. So I never made it there, but I went, I went to follow you with it, but that was like the strangest thing. So my team that year was Mr. Smith does not come to Iceland. That was the teenager. Does not come to Iceland,
John: They're having like Madeira, they had the Madeira tournament.
Ron: they don't have any indications in these other places they're going to, they're going to have the ice in China,
John: yeah. Iceland. Like they eradicated it. I mean
Ron: I guess at the beginning we could have done the same as they would have, uh, isolated the, in Washington and in New York. That's all and then stops people from coming for a while. And I'm sure if the pandemic team had stayed in tech, they had 55, countries. They had offices in and one of them was China.
I'm sure they could have got it at the, you know,
John: Wow.
Ron: I mean, that's, that's what they did with Ebola. They got it. Exactly what, you know, they brought the people over where it started and stopped it. It didn't make it over here, but uh, Oh no, no team, no nothing. And there's been nothing. So here we are. I, man,
John: Oh, my gosh.
Ron: know how people can understand and yet they fight and they won't wear a mask and won't do anything.
So I don't see us getting out of this. The whole thing to get out of this is to escape somewhere, somewhere else.
John: Oh, my
Ron: Yeah, I don't see how we can get out of this with the attitudes that they have. It's never going to happen. It's always going to be bad at some point, maybe the vaccine, but then you got to get everybody to take the vaccine. Most people won't take it. I guess somebody wants to play bridge tonight.
John: All right. Well, Let's let's wrap this baby up.
Ron: I have a million other good stories so I can come back. You just hit the tip of the iceberg. Oh yeah. I have a million story. We haven't even talked about half of the people that, uh, I know I have great stories. I mean, we can start in St. Louis and might not ever get out.
John: Oh man.
Ron: keep going and I can tell you a lot of great Martin Harris stories. He was. One of the guys. I mean, he was, I remember chemo to St. Louis. He got borrowed from the rubber bridge club. They were literally afraid of them. They were shaking their boots at the table. He was one Ferris player. He's the only guy, no, to chase people out of the game.
Cause they were afraid to play against him.
John: what made him so fierce?
Ron: was a great car player and he had huge and Cassidy and they can see the intensity and it made them nervous. The intensity. And they were playing for money and he was just, he would make hands and they just didn't know how he made it. Yeah, he was great.
John: You ever played in the reasons he game
Ron: I played, one time, who was it? Uh, Richie Schwartz, one in the back of me in the game, but I don't like being back. It's just a bad deal for both of us. But I was there kibitzing Richie and they had two games. And one of the players there is, I think it was Mike Moss had to go to the doctor or a dentist.
So he had to leave. And so a little player. So they asked me to play and, and I said, I'll be the house, man. I'll play for nothing. You syndicate me. Cause I don't know you guys, but I'm not playing for a dollar anyway. And can, you know, they would have to take the check. So I remember playing against the warrants back there, which I came in. I was on the team with him in New York and we came in second and the spindle. So here I am playing against him in the, rubber bridge game. And I open one club. My partner bins, one spade. I raised them to two spades. Now, Warren specter vulnerable.
Now, I guess not because they do the opposite in Chicago. He does too now and they compete the four nines and his dummy comes down and he has three little, two little King fourth in a sword. And his two no-bid showed both minors, even though I opened the club. So he laid down three little, two little King, four A's forth, seven points vol and four, four in the minors.
And it says, what do you think of my bed? And I turned to him and said, you're not playing for money. Okay. Okay. Fell out last. Think about bed. Who did this?
John: They make more diamonds.
Ron: it did. They're playing against me.
John: So you didn't, you were not able to syndicate yourself. You had to be, you, you were staking yourself as it turned
Ron: No, no, I wasn't taking myself. I was, I was playing, I was playing for another thing me.
John: Oh my
Ron: when he asked me what is, but I thought of his beard. Oh my God, what could I say?
John: Oh, uh,
Ron: a good, really good player. That's all. Okay.
John: I've played with Warren in that game. And, I showed it to suitor and I don't remember what happened, but anyway, I showed a much better hand than I had. And Warren ended up doubling them in like a, a three level, two level, three level contract. and yeah, that did not.
go well. He said, he said you could pull the fucking duck. He said, you could pull a fucking double.
Ron: Yeah, you can fly.
John: He he'd got better. So now I was the, yeah. Um, do you have to go, do you have to go play bridge? No.
Ron: I got a law
John: Oh my
Ron: they're on West coast time. They're blended, 70 30 that that's, uh, Warren is Richard Schwartz. So I'm playing with Richard Schwartz. I played with him in the entire national and we have a tremendous record. I think the first time I played on a team with him, we were second in the spin goat.
I took, Peter Boyd's place. He was cancer. And he was having chemo. And I played with, Robinson and we had Sontag playing, but, Richie and we had Solloway and Goldman and we got to the finals of the spin goat. And so I now got on his regular team team for good. And, we had a couple of high finishes.
And now we played in the fall nationals and I played as his partner for the entire time. And so we're playing in the LM pairs and we're doing pretty well. And he opens the bidding and we get the six diamonds and somebody, the guy behind me doubles and it goes all pass. And he's looking really evil at me because he thinks I forgot something in the system. So I'm letting him look over there. I mean, he's looking really evil. The guy leads the card, Albany lead, and I went it and he's got two little diamonds in the dummy and I lead the two off the dummy and this guy shows out, I shake my head and play the three and this guy wins it. And now Richie is looking really evil and right before he leans over and says something, he shouldn't say, I said, I have the rest.
I waited out and they didn't suffer the entire time.
John: What was your diamond suit?
Ron: them to the ACE King, Jack. I don't know how this guy do the double three to the queen. We should have been in seven, double me in six diamonds are three days going outside. He got his diamonds.
John: Oh, my God. Wow. Well, what did Richard say?
Ron: said don't ever do that again.
John: The three,
Ron: can't wait to do it again. What are you talking about?
John: Oh man. Oh my
Ron: Richard was quite a character. Quaint, lived in a hotel, lived in a holiday Inn by the airport in the yard. Couldn't have a regular apartment. It lived in a hotel. When I first met him by the airport, then he got with, March was in ski for a while and she had moved to a nicer places, but, They both lived had joining rooms.
Wow.
John: Oh, my gosh.
Ron: She put up with it. I've got mint. I imagine she got away with a million dollars at the end, but I don't think that was enough. She was grossly underpaid.
John: I'm I apol I have to apologize cause I'm tired, man. Uh
Ron: my, uh, I get to play rubber bridge with these three guys. I don't play for money. They play for big money and I'm not sure any money changes hands, but I wish I could hear them yelling through the screens. Cause they do some yelling here on, on
John: you should, you should try a real, well, I guess you played real bridge for the USB F
Ron: Yeah. If we can play on rail bridge, I could see them doing this. I'm gonna see if I can get that arranged. And if they can play a real bridge, a real bridge, because that would be so much better.
John: I think there's something on a bridge winners that if you can't just do it on its own, I think there's a article on bridge winners about how you can play on rail
Ron: Okay, because I like to do that. That would be great. If we could blow up real bridge and see these guys yelling at each other. Oh God, have you priceless because nobody's really a top player, but they're funny.
John: Are you playing in the Nao BC?
Ron: Yes. I'm playing on a team with Jason Shu. My partner is Todd Moses. And our fourth is Daniel Saunders, another Wizkid
John: I record. I stayed today. Jason. I know of, he's a, yeah, he's a, he's a regular, I'd say at the, at the bigger events.
Ron: Daniels. He's got that smile. He looked and he looks like I called him surfer dude, but he tells me that he's got a funny accent for some reason. I forgot what it is, but no, he's got a smile. It looks like a surfer kid. But he's not, he says, you know who the surfer is in the group. Excellent. Jason Feldman.
He was the surfer. If you pick that.
Yeah. He's, he's a big time athlete, Jason. He goes to a lot of stuff. He's the one that got into big trouble as a junior. that was funny. He, um, who was at Brian senior, asked all the juniors to write up their personal stories. And a lot of the kids wrote up some things that were unbelievable that they can say these words in the bullets, but you think as only the other juniors to reading it.
Okay. So when it came time to write, Jason's personal story, he and Aaron were engaged or they were boyfriend girlfriend. And, Aaron wrote in her biography that she taught school and she taught sex education. Jason wrote that he was over there playing bridge, taking advanced lessons in sex education. And I thought that was so fantastic. Oh, no board of directors. Oh, they were going to cancel the junior program. They were so upset and I asked one of them as well. What are you doing? Reading the juniors bulletin anyway. Cool. What are you some kind of pedestal?
John: Did they used to have a junior bulletin in the daily
Ron: no, they had, it was in the junior world championship. They were all by themselves. Why couldn't they be by themselves? Why were these people in the United States reading the bulletin and adding to them? Oh my God, it's just so sick. That's why these people can't, shouldn't be charged. I'm glad that it's so great that, Michael and Debbie run the junior program that is, they legitimized it.
Get these water director people out of the deal, and they should have no business being involved at all.
John: how did my man, Adam Kaplan play in the,
Ron: He played pretty well. He played very well. We were doing pretty well, but we're a week you've won that last match, that we lost her. They went on to win and I was happy. They won because, uh, whoever the limey Jack is the person that predicts the winners. I don't know who that person is, but he should stay out of the being of the predictor.
And not only did he, you know, he says we were too subpar. How did two subpar teams get to the round of eight? Well, one on one event and then the closest match they had was against us. They pummeled everybody else.
John: it said that in the round of eight, it said, how did two subpar teams get to the round of
Ron: yeah, that's what he said in the, predictions and slimy Jack Guy.
John: think that Sue's these two back. Who does that?
Ron: Then how would, you know, if they were to do so far dates?
John: when I last played in a USB F event live, we, I think we finished dead last. It was pretty, it was pretty humiliating. So when we were not picked to get out of the round Robin, and when you and I played the USB F event together, I was not surprised, but that prediction. But, but we showed them.
Ron: yeah, you gotta be a little kind. You just can't like, you know, you gotta be like a agric capital miss time to play. You just can't say people, they suck.
John: All right, man. Well, you're a great sport.
Ron: I'm glad to be. I guess I'll go get myself a no, I can't drink anything stronger. I love scotch and vodka, but they don't like me. So I would just stick to champagne. One more glass. I'm allowed maybe a glass of red wine. Later two hours later and then I'm done. Yeah, I'm a lightweight, nowadays bad deal.
I have four drinks. I don't feel too. Well. Three is a of big,
John: So, so Ron light is, has more than just a bridge connotation to it
Ron: yeah. Ron light is my light.
John: Really weren't open and you didn't really have to have 14 high card points to open the bid in 20 years ago.
Ron: Oh, yeah. Yes, you did. You had to be, and I was the biggest ross' donor of all time. I mean, I would have all my bids and the next year, Hays, whatever you thought the bid showed I'd have two more ACEs.
John: Who is more solid? You are Michael Powell on.
Ron: Well, at one point I was with Michael Paulo, Michael Paulo, and it's like, I don't have to DVR and I want some big stuff with him. By Babylon. That was a big step within lost some big stuff.
John: Well, he has a reputation as being pretty solid citizen. That's why I asked in terms of having his beds.
Ron: Well that's what they do in New York. They all do youth. A lot of them still have their debts, but that day is over. I mean, the light, it shows that if you put some bit in their face, you got an advantage. They have to start. I mean, nobody has a good takeout double system. Nobody gave me ever seen anybody wrote right up with the Disney.
Like you, if you make it take out double an IQ bit, how far is that forcing? Nobody seems to know that like, if it goes one diamond, double pass, two diamonds and you did two hearts. Can I drop you?
John: I don't think
Ron: So they did. How far is the bid forcing?
John: You got to ask Joe
Ron: Okay. I'll get another life
to me. He got his name from, the baseball movie, the rum God, Joe boop. It was, what is it? Major league baseball. It's baseball movie. And they had in the bar, they had the rum, they had the thing called the rum guy, Joe boop, and cause there's one scene in there where the guy said you didn't drink Joe booze, rum.
Boom, knocks him out. And the next thing you see, the guy knocked out with black eyes the next morning. So that's where we got the name. Joe goo book.
John: I just figured it was a rhyme on grew. I thought it was sort of
Ron: No, it was, uh, from that ask Curtis Jake. He knows all the answers. We got it from that movie even now became jovial. It's like some baseball movie. That's where he got the nickname.
John: Have you ever heard of, a song called, the song that never ends.
Ron: I heard of this some guy, I don't know how it goes though.
John: It's a, it goes, this is the song that never ends. It goes on and on my friends. So we'll be, I don't know all the words, but basically it just repeats. Anyway, I have a feeling this conversation it's like, I can't, I can't pull you off on like the, Joe Boone nickname, you know, like it's gotta be something more.
There's gotta be some more, you know, that this is an end, this is an end. It's like a completion, you know, like that we've come to a point of, you know,
Ron: He's a rum guy. I just called him gone now.
if you come over, I got wrong. I got some good rum. I don't drink it. So it'll be here.
I mean, sipping rum, some you can sit with and also the dark and stormy.
John: all right, man. You're a good you're. You're a very good sport. Thank you very much for putting up with
Ron: Okay. I enjoyed it. Okay. Okay.
John: I'll be in
Ron: Okay.